• Scratch@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    295
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    7 months ago

    You can recommend what you like. As soon as Windows 10 can’t play the latest games I’m off to Linux.

    Eat my whole ass, Microsoft.

    • Bahnd Rollard@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      109
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      7 months ago

      Come on over, the water is fine. I switched to Pop_OS a few months back for the gaming rig and Proton+Steam works almost flawlessly. Older titles sometimes have hiccups, but so far ive only been blocked on one title.

      • mesamune@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        47
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        7 months ago

        Yep it’s pretty easy and my computer runs so much faster than Windows on the same machine.

          • fartsparkles@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            9
            ·
            7 months ago

            You joke but it actually boots faster in a VM for me than on bare metal. And that’s with fastboot enabled. Would love to know why!

            • metaStatic@kbin.social
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              15
              ·
              7 months ago

              the best jokes have a kernel of truth.

              The VM is optimised for the OS, the OS is usually a fresh install with just that 1 program you need to use instead of you’re entire life scattered across the desktop, it can be a snapshot of the system in an optimal state right after running an unfuck windows script that removes default system malware which doesn’t let it reinstall, it has less system resources to deal with for the simple fact it can’t use them all at the same time as the base OS.

            • catloaf@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              ·
              7 months ago

              Probably a BIOS that has a very well known hardware configuration. It doesn’t have to worry about weird legacy shit, it’s only ever going to be the VM hardware. (Plus whatever you pass through, but I imagine the BIOS doesn’t care, or if it does it’ll slow it back down).

      • DichotoDeezNutz@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        27
        ·
        7 months ago

        I just switched from W10 to Pop_OS and have had lots of trouble. I’m trying to stick with it but from audio glitches to many games not running unless I find a random CLI arg that someone mentioned on Reddit, to my UI freezing, it’s not been an easy switch.

        • Nevoic@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          26
          ·
          7 months ago

          Any chance you have an nvidia card? Nvidia for a long time has been in a worse spot on Linux than AMD, which interestingly is the inverse of Windows. A lot of AMD users complain of driver issues on Windows and swap to Nvidia as a result, and the exact opposite happens on Linux.

          Nvidia is getting much better on Linux though, and Wayland+explicit sync is coming down the pipeline. With NVK in a couple years it’s quite possible that nvidia/amd Linux experience will be very similar.

          • Lemminary@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            8
            ·
            7 months ago

            I wish I still had my AMD card but it decided to brick itself for no apparent reason after it made horrible humming noises whenever it chose to ever since I bought it. I have an Nvidia card now and haven’t had a single issue on Windows yet, but maybe my days are counted to the moment I switch to Linux.

        • metaStatic@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          11
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          7 months ago

          it’s not a drop in replacement and anyone looking for one will be disappointed by literally anything available.

          You’re learning an entirely new operating system, don’t think of it as an upgrade, this is a time sink. You’ll be under the hood more than on the road for the foreseeable future, but what’s the alternative?

          • DichotoDeezNutz@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            7 months ago

            I get that, and I love Linux, it’s just annoying to see people say that they switched with 0 issues and trying to sell it off like people won’t have problems.

            • InFerNo@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              ·
              7 months ago

              I don’t understand why people can’t simply believe that someone could actually have very little issues with performance or settings after switching.

              What About™ people who have issues when installing windows, as if that never happens.

              I put both kinds of operating systems on a myriad of computers and sometimes it’s smooth sailing and sometimes it’s like stepping on rake after rake.

              • DichotoDeezNutz@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                7 months ago

                Its not that I don’t believe it, rather they are “selling” Linux as if there won’t be any problems, but whoever is making the switch will have to learn about troubleshooting. That’s a good thing, but something that they should be aware of.

                • InFerNo@lemmy.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  ·
                  7 months ago

                  I don’t really have a problem with “selling” Linux. You gotta take all things with a dose of skepticism.

                  Has anyone ever recommended a product of any complexity as an OS and then also listed all of the common issues people might encounter? When people talk about a product they like, of course it will highlight the positive things, but anyone who has ever touched a computer, hobbyist or not, knows these things might sometimes shit the bed in unexpected ways. I think that’s common sense.

                  Windows is said to have less problems, but the cryptic errors and non descriptive “wait while we do something” message without any other output actually makes solving problems harder. It has more users, so luckily that means someone out there probably has the issue documented so solutions are easier to find.

                  I use both, at home primarily Linux, at work primarily Windows. I had troubles in both that caused serious headaches, but generally they both work without too much problems.

                  This might have been a bit rambling 😅

        • SidewaysHighways@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          7 months ago

          Try bazzite? It’s been cool with my setup. Intel processor with GTX 1660 ti.

          Mint has been cool too! on a laptop with a 1650 on it

      • kakes@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        8
        ·
        7 months ago

        I’ve seen a lot of people recommending Pop_OS lately. Out of curiosity, what’s the benefit over something like Mint?

        • HeyMrDeadMan@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          7
          ·
          7 months ago

          I’ll try to offer an answer to both you and @natedog526.

          Pop came heavily recommended for a while because it’s relatively light-weight for a modern desktop, had some fresh UI ideas with its COSMIC plugins for Gnome, and ships with some nice bonuses for gamers like built in Steam and Nvidia setup scripts.

          Unfortunately, it’s become pretty stale lately. I still use it daily on my main desktop, but lately it’s becoming harder and harder to keep from hopping to something new. A few pain points include Pop shipping older version of some important software like the Kernel, Wine, and Mesa, persistsant audio bugs like the other user mentioned, and basically no support for Wayland at the moment.

          A lot of these are because System76 has been heavily focused working on its COSMIC desktop, which should function a full standalone desktop environment instead of Gnome with duct tape. It’s looking forward to seeing it which has so far kept me from switching, but with no release date and other distros offering what Pop offers, it’s harder and harder to stay put.

        • Omnifarious@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          7 months ago

          Curious about this too. I was gonna spend some time trying some different distros. Both mint and PopOs are on my list.

      • rdrunner@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        7 months ago

        If iRacing and my other sim racing gear worked with Linux I’d make the switch asap. I already have popOS on another hard drive and everything other than iRacing has worked well

        • poleslav@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          7 months ago

          Yup, similar boat but with planes instead of cars. Most inputs Linux can support on a single usb device is 86 or so, my throttle alone has well over 150 buttons on it. Add in all the stuff for my sim cockpit (probably around 1000 buttons), my haptic feedback chair, and then VR… as much as I’d like to use Linux, I don’t think it’d be possible for the foreseeable future for me to switch.

      • Statlerwaldorf@midwest.social
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        7 months ago

        I did the same a few months back. No problems so far. Some older games require switching up the compatibility layer occasionally but no deal breakers so far.

      • kennebel@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        7 months ago

        I switched to Pop!_OS about 3 months ago and have been loving it! First Linux distribution that just worked for me, and every app works better than any other Linux or Windows 11 on the same hardware.

    • NRay7882@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      18
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      7 months ago

      We need a successful replacement to DirectX for this to happen.

      Look how desperate they are now for their web browser, imagine when people start abandoning Windows because there are other options that work just as well. I can’t wait.

        • NRay7882@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          8
          ·
          7 months ago

          Definitely, I’m not saying that there aren’t any viable candidates out there now, but the title base for games that support Vulkan seems to be not even 1/10th of what DirectX 11 can support. It needs more acceptance I guess is what I mean.

      • Enoril@jlai.lu
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        9
        ·
        edit-2
        7 months ago

        Honestly even the as-is directX with Wine is already quite good. With Vulkan, game over :-)

        • MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          7 months ago

          Wine doesn’t do DirectX. A wine environment set up for gaming uses DXVK or VKD3D to translate everything to Vulkan.

          • vividspecter@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            6
            ·
            edit-2
            7 months ago

            Wine does do DirectX as well (and did well before DVXK and VKD3D-Proton were a thing). But it translates to OGL instead of Vulkan so it was always relatively slow and has issues with compatibility. There’s also some other built in work to translate to Vulkan (including the original VKD3D), but they are behind the third party projects too.

            • MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              7 months ago

              Yes, that was WineD3D, which still has to be used in some cases.

              But that’s still not DirectX, what I was saying is that you don’t actually run DirectX in Wine. You have to translate it to Vulkan or OpenGL.

              Not that this stuff isn’t part of Wine.

      • MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        8
        ·
        edit-2
        7 months ago

        We already do?

        DXVK and VKD3D have been translating DirectX 9-12 to Vulkan for a while now, allowing DirectX games and applications to run on hardware and/or operating systems that don’t support DirectX.

        Intels ARC GPUs don’t even support DirectX on a hardware level, like it’s just straight up not there. Intels drivers instead just translate it to Vulkan, and their at times insane FPS boosts from driver updates was due to them improving that translation and getting closer to 1:1 performance.

        • NRay7882@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          edit-2
          7 months ago

          At times, yes. But at most times, no. Certain games can capitalize on ARC and I was just as enthusiastic as everyone else when it first started making the rounds. But theres a reason the cards haven’t caught on and most people seem to rely on them more for offloading things like streaming and AV1 encoding/decoding

          • MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            7 months ago

            They’re new.

            I didn’t claim they’re worth recommending yet. AFAIK they’re pretty great now, and with more issues worked out on the hardware side, Battlemage has great potential.

    • The Assman@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      12
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      7 months ago

      I haven’t touched my Windows PC since the steam deck came out. If you only care about games you don’t need Windows.

    • AdamBomb@lemmy.sdf.org
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      10
      ·
      7 months ago

      That was my choice too. I made the jump to Mint earlier this year and couldn’t be happier. It took a little effort to get updated GPU drivers, and my games sometimes need an extra CLI argument added, but those things have been pretty quickly and easily found on the Mint forums, Ubuntu forums, or ProtonDB comments.

    • Enoril@jlai.lu
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      8
      ·
      7 months ago

      Switched to arch linux last november, didn’t had to launch my backup VM Win10 at all. I even managed to play at StarCitizen with better performance than under Win 10…

      Just wow the progress of Linux, Wine & co since my last linux try (Ubuntu, around 2010).

      I just need now to find a linux way for my music stack and all the VST (my steinberg usb card is recognized and play properly oO) and Windows will be history at home…

      • Dablin@kbin.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        7 months ago

        Yeah ive also had s Star Citizen running in Arch. My setup didnt support game updates though so every update needed a complete redownload of the entire game which got old real fast.

        Also had Microsoft Flight Simulator running very well too which is peak irony. At first there was issues with satellite terrain and imagary as the networking was broken but a Proton update actually fixed that.

        Im incredibly impressed on the type of heavy duty window games ive got working in linux, some working very well others with slight occasional issues.

        Linux gaming isnt perfect but windows has never been either. Ive had plenty of experience over the years with some games just not running properly or at all in windows even though they should.

        Ive found many older games generally run better in Linux now in respect to modern windows, despite the compatibility layers.

    • misk@sopuli.xyz
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      8
      ·
      7 months ago

      It’s funny seeing this every couple of years. People get up in arms about something with Windows, some switch to Linux because they outgrew Windows and the time was right. By now I think you guys could be primary source of Linux users.

      • Scratch@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        9
        ·
        7 months ago

        Yeah, I’m guilty of this tbh. It’s just the massive unknown of leaving something you’ve been so close to for literally the majority of my life.

        It’s scary!

        • imecth@fedia.io
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          7 months ago

          It’s little grievances that eventually pile up and one day you’ll just have had enough and switch.

          • blind3rdeye@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            7 months ago

            Yeah, for me it is the ads. No one likes ads, but I hate ads more than most people. So when Windows started putting more and more ‘recommendations’ into various places… I’ve been building up a list of registry tweaks to turn it all off - but as more ads got added, just couldn’t tolerate it any more. I installed Mint with dual boot (defaulting to Mint). I thought I’d be booting into Window every so often for one reason or another, but as it happens - the only reason I ever loaded Windows was to check that the dual booting was working.

        • 7U5K3N@lemmy.dbzer0.com
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          7
          ·
          7 months ago

          Folks will say arch.

          But honestly any modern Linux system with 3rd party drivers will work. Mint pop_os arch Manjaro Debian Ubuntu etc

          I’m running a 1660 and an i5 64xx on kubuntu 24.04 Granted that stuff is older but you’ll have the same experience.

          Unless you’re running the absolute bleeding edge… You’ll not have a lot of problems.

          *Ymmv of course but majority of folks won’t have issues.

          • HeyMrDeadMan@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            11
            ·
            edit-2
            7 months ago

            The the Arch software repos are incredible and the Arch Wiki is, quite frankly, a work of art that should be celebrated with the same reverence as the Mona Lisa or David’s uncircumcised cock.

            But anyone recommending Arch to a Linux newbie needs a psych evaluation.

            I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve read stories to the effect of, “yeah, a regular package update bricked my desktop, but I just rolled my face across the keyboard and recompiled the offending software and got back to work, no big deal.”

            Cool. I’m so glad you can do that my guy, I really am. But how the hell do you expect average computer user to figure that out? The first time a software update leaves them at a command prompt with some cryptic GDM error message or a Nvidia kernel panic or something, they’re going running back to Billy Gates’ warm walled garden embrace. Shit, I like to think I’m half competent with Linux and I’d shit myself if that happened to me.

            EDIT: Sorry, @7U5K3N@lemmy.dbzer0.com, I didn’t nessicarily mean to direct any of that to you specifically, it’s sort of just my standard copy pasta whenever I see Arch reccomded.

            • 7U5K3N@lemmy.dbzer0.com
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              ·
              7 months ago

              Haha I agree arch is the meme recommendation. It has its benefits like you’ve detailed out… but it’s not for a windows convert. I’ve ran it, it can require more fiddling than some of the other distros. Tinkering that newbies can’t do.

              Me I’m an apt man. So I tend to suggest distros that center around that package manager… it just so happens that they are some of the newbie ones.

              I once installed mint on my ex father in laws machine and it ran perfectly for ages for him (with auto updates) They were spending $$$s a quarter on windowa system cleanup due to viruses. As he was an online slot machine / junk flash game player. So of course he would get all the viruses. Once he went mint, he had 0 issues (with the os) the issues he had was more user error with online behavior.

              Anyway. No problem for the gruffness of your reply, as I agree with what you’ve said. :)

    • PotatoKat@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      7 months ago

      Give pop-os a try if you’re running an nvidia. It was very much plug and play with my laptop and it works great.

    • Tregetour@lemdro.id
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      arrow-down
      8
      ·
      edit-2
      7 months ago

      If you had any real intention of making the shift, you’d have done so already. Protip: You know I’m right!

        • Tregetour@lemdro.id
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          7 months ago

          The ‘as soon as Windows 10 can’t x I’m off to Linux!’ refrain is so routine in our circles it’s practically a meme. All someone says when they pontificate like this is that their true priority is can kicking rather than action.

          • Anas@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            7 months ago

            I feel like someone who likes Win10 and is used to it would want to use it for as long as they can, before having to change to Linux.

  • Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    113
    arrow-down
    5
    ·
    7 months ago

    This one is particularly harsh since win11 has ridiculous artificial hard stops on installation based on made up hardware requirements. Also it sucks.

    • Creat@discuss.tchncs.de
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      41
      ·
      7 months ago

      This also makes it easy to block Win 10 from upgrading to 11, just disable tpm in BIOS. From where I’m sitting, that’s kinda convenient.

        • Scott@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          16
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          7 months ago

          That’s where you grab a W10 Enterprise LTSC iso which has support until 2032.

          Already got a surface running it.

          • Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            18
            ·
            7 months ago

            Hol up. So m$ is still making the patches they’re just not releasing them to anyone but enterprise users? The whole end of service thing doesn’t actually free up any of their resources its just a soulless push for upgrade purchases?

            • Scott@sh.itjust.works
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              9
              ·
              7 months ago

              There are a few copies floating around torrent sites.

              Usually it’s sku conversion changes so it’s not an eval mode.

              Or find a friendly neighborhood n3rd who might have one. 😉

              Also you can entirely uninstall edge!

        • Creat@discuss.tchncs.de
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          7 months ago

          Dunno yet, sounds like future me’s problem. Mist likely some version of Linux unless win 11 drastically changes course (unlikely).

        • daikiki@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          7 months ago

          I imagine they’ll have backtracked on this decision long before then.

      • Khrux@ttrpg.network
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        7 months ago

        I have a PC I built that was absolutely top of the line 9½ years ago, that still plays most games in high to max settings. It’s a little powerhouse for its age, I often use it for rendering video and it still smokes everybody I know 's devices.

        Windows 11 is too powerful for my PC according to Microsoft and I’ve been so pleased about that. If it wasn’t for the fact that I have no issues with my current windows 10 setup, I’d put in some time to jump to Linux. I’m just too lazy to give it the weekend it would take to learn, set up and move my content over properly.

        • Creat@discuss.tchncs.de
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          7 months ago

          Well to my knowledge there are (or at least were) workarounds to get win 11 to install anyway. It of course worked fine, despite saying it needed a TPM and/or specific minimum CPU.

          From an eWaste perspective Microsofts decision to force literally millions of PCs into fake obsolescence is obviously horrible. And I honestly have no idea what their motivation even was for this.

          As for trying Linux, these days it really isn’t even a weekend. Sure if you want to tinker and learn, you can invest a weekend. But if you want to just use the PC just pick any of the commonly recommended distros and just go. It’s installed in minutes and you can honestly just use the PC for whatever you used to use it before. Just backup/move your data off it and you got nothing to lose but like an hour, if it really doesn’t work as you need it to.

    • Chev@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      7 months ago

      I’ve the newest AMD hardware available and I’m not able to upgrade. No idea what they want.

  • codenamekino@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    100
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    7 months ago

    Lemmy probably isn’t the target audience for this, here’s the steps to bypass the MS account requirement when setting up W11:

    • Configure your keyboard, but before you select your wifi network press Shift+(Fn)+F10 to open Command Prompt.

    • Type in the following command and press enter. Your computer will reboot: oobe\bypassnro

    • After the reboot, configure your keyboard and location settings, and click the option at the bottom of the page to say that you don’t want to connect to the internet

    • Click the link on the next page to “Continue with limited setup”, then follow the prompts to enter a username and password.

    • Dumbkid@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      36
      ·
      7 months ago

      If you use rufus to make a windows usb you can select to not require Microsoft account and bypass tpm right in the program, just get a windows 11 iso off the site instead of media creation tool

      • Hugh_Jeggs@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        7 months ago

        Having checked a few Reddit threads by the Rufus dev, this seems the way to go!

    • selokichtli@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      21
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      7 months ago

      Thank you. Now that I’ve showed you my appreciation, are you fucking kidding me?

    • Hugh_Jeggs@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      24
      arrow-down
      8
      ·
      7 months ago

      Lemmy is exactly the audience for this, thanks!

      It just seems like there are are more Linux users because they’re constantly bleating about it in smug, self-congratulary comments

    • LaunchesKayaks@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      12
      ·
      7 months ago

      Also, if you have windows 11 pro, you can do:

      Sign in options Domain join instead Make local account

      If you have windows 11 home you can:

      put no@thankyou.com Use whatever as the password Hit next after the error message Make local account

      I do this shit at least three times a week at my job. It’s the fuckin worst.

    • Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      10
      ·
      7 months ago

      I wouldn’t try it for a permanent machine as it could backfire when Microsoft trys to enforce it and could lock up the machine somehow (because bigs not because evil corpo)

      • codenamekino@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        7 months ago

        I agree, but I find something else even more weasel-y and annoying when I’m adding a second user to an already-configured W11 computer. If I’m adding them as a local account without a Microsoft account, I’ll use Tab to navigate through the process of creating a username, password, and security questions. After the last security question, I’ll hit tab to navigate to the “Okay” button at bottom left of the window, which seems like a reasonable expectation. Instead, Windows will highlight the “Back” button at the bottom right. If you aren’t paying attention and hit enter or space bar, you have to start all the way back at the beginning.

        I know that is a small dumb complaint, but when I’m setting 5 computers up in a row and tabbing through everything, my habits get the better of me, and I’ll have to redo it two or three times out of the five.

    • 737@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      41
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      7 months ago

      Governments, schools, and companies just finished (for the most part) to move to Windows 10. So it really sounds more like a problem for 2030 to me.

    • Potatos_are_not_friends@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      8
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      7 months ago

      Same.

      And if it’s like the last four Windows updates, I’ll go right through EoL for a year or two, and finally upgrade because I wanted to play a specific video game, upgrade my graphic card, or it came free with my new PC.

  • Toes♀@ani.social
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    64
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    7 months ago

    I really want to see the EU force Microsoft to release a stripped down version that continues to support older hardware.

      • phdepressed@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        56
        ·
        7 months ago

        Because a bunch of government and business uses 10 and they really don’t want “Recall AI” in there for a plethora of reasons.

      • Toes♀@ani.social
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        23
        ·
        edit-2
        7 months ago

        A devastating amount of computer hardware is about to be e-wasted because they decided to drop support for anything older than roughly 2017/2018.

        It’s an arbitrary limitation as people have succeeded in forcing it to work on much older hardware that still works well enough for your avg person.

        Additionally, windows used to be a tool now it’s a platform for them to essentially market any number of things and user privacy appears to be the least important thing on the table.

        The only reason we don’t see mass adoption of Linux has been 4 decades of software development and marketing that let’s them continue to wear their crown.

        A regulatory party needs to humble them and return windows to being a tool.

        Imagine if the gasoline companies one day announced that they will be changing gas so only cars bought in the last 5 years or so could refuel.

        Now imagine if to buy a car you had to tolerate cameras and other forms of tracking your telemetry just to get to work and feed yourself.

        Lunacy yes? They took the “my” out of my computer.

        • Pyrarrows@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          13
          ·
          7 months ago

          Fun fact, there were still computers being manufactured with CPUs that don’t support Windows 11 in 2020, got one of those at work that we will need to replace before then. Thankfully only one, so it’s not too big of a deal.

        • fuckwit_mcbumcrumble@lemmy.dbzer0.com
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          ·
          7 months ago

          Imagine if the gasoline companies one day announced that they will be changing gas so only cars bought in the last 5 years or so could refuel.

          They’ve already effectively did this, and by they I mean the US government mandated it. 5% ethanol has been mandated since 2006, and 10% since 2012. If your car is too old (lots of 90s cars) you’ll have to find a gas station that has ethanol free fuel.

          • Feyd@programming.dev
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            7 months ago

            I’ve read this a few times. If ethanol is mandated how are there stations with ethanol free? Do they just have a pay an extra tax or something?

            • zeppo@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              7 months ago

              It’s allowed for certain types of vehicles, so people illicitly put it in to regular vehicles as well and gas stations turn a blind eye.

              • die444die@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                5
                ·
                7 months ago

                It’s not illicit to put non ethanol gas in any vehicle, and even if it were would you actually expect gas stations to confirm the type of vehicle that’s getting fuel for every transaction before the customer is allowed to swipe their card and fill up?

                You may be confusing ethanol free gas with off road diesel, which is basically just lower taxed and not dyed. Even then it’s not up to the gas station to police who buys it.

                • zeppo@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  7 months ago

                  I think actually I was thinking the extra-high octane gas labeled ‘for collector vehicles only’.

        • Rolder@reddthat.com
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          7 months ago

          The real thing stopping mass adoption of Linux is that few people want to fiddle around with their machines to that degree. For the vast majority of users, it just needs to run and be able to run whatever programs are needed, and the easier it is to do so, the better.

            • Rolder@reddthat.com
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              ·
              7 months ago

              Correct, and those people aren’t going to jump through hoops finding a distro and drivers when they can just install windows and call it a day

              • hydrospanner@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                ·
                7 months ago

                This

                And when I run into issues, I would rather be using the OS that is the most common so that I have more options to get good info for a fix. I don’t want problems that nobody’s ever encountered, or for which the fix is beyond my limited technical ability.

                It’s somewhat amusing when I see people on Lemmy proselytizing for Linux and literally while laying out their points to convince someone how easy it is, they’ll talk about doing shit that is already beyond my ability. And I’m not some 90 year old who struggles to turn it on. I’m just a user that doesn’t care to use any OS that I’ll need to take time to learn to figure out how to use it.

                When I start a Windows machine I just do what I need to do.

                When even a Linux cheerleader is trying to convince someone how easy it is, they’re already indicating more effort than I want to put into it.

        • e0qdk@reddthat.com
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          7 months ago

          Now imagine if to buy a car you had to tolerate cameras and other forms of tracking your telemetry just to get to work and feed yourself.

          Sorry to be the bearer of depressing news, but that’s basically already happening in new cars.

          https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/blog/privacy-nightmare-on-wheels-every-car-brand-reviewed-by-mozilla-including-ford-volkswagen-and-toyota-flunks-privacy-test/

          https://jacobin.com/2024/03/car-spying-insurance-surveillance-data/

        • JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          7 months ago

          Why should they have to support Windows 10 when Linux would run fine on your ‘old’ machine? That really puts the ‘yours’ back in your computer, no need for a company to do it for you.

          • Toes♀@ani.social
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            11
            ·
            7 months ago

            Yeah and abandon so much in the process.

            Linux is wonderful and works plenty fine, but as a civilization we are not ready. There’s still so much that won’t work out of the box, for most manufacturers it’s an after thought if any at all.

            You can’t walk into your avg store and be like I want a computer with Linux that will play fortnite.

            You can’t blindly buy a video game or a multifunctional printer without serious consideration.

            Unlike Windows where it’s the established norm that it will work 100% of the time.

            Sure you can argue that a user should just learn to deal with that and teach themselves how to install Linux and cope with whatever comes up.

            But that’s just unfair to grandma and anyone else that hasn’t made computers a hobby.

          • pHr34kY@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            5
            ·
            7 months ago

            I have two Surface Pros that are BIOS locked so I can’t install Linux. They also don’t support Win11.

            I’m not sure what I can do with them.

            • barsquid@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              ·
              7 months ago

              I am full of rage by proxy, sorry to hear that. I’ve been thinking of only buying coreboot motherboards from now on, but that’s easier said than done.

      • Toes♀@ani.social
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        12
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        7 months ago

        It’s not out of the realm of possibility. They have been known to force Microsoft to make changes in the past. As well as Apple and other major software companies.

        Edit: Grammar

    • Optional@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      8
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      7 months ago

      Shouldn’t they just support Linux more? Maybe fund some driver development but otherwise - win?

      • snownyte@kbin.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        10
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        7 months ago

        One would think.

        Linux costs next to nothing compared to Windows. So if companies want to cry about having to save on budget, go with the better option for it.

        Who the fuck needs Office 365? Nothing has really changed on that software for years, it’s still the same shit. I don’t see anything different on Microsoft Word 2007 from it’s 365 counterpart. People are getting scammed.

          • FordBeeblebrox@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            5
            ·
            7 months ago

            My gf recently took one of those dumb ability tests on Indeed for an office job, shows you two screenshots of document editing and you answer which buttons achieve the desired effect. I opened Word on my laptop and all of the buttons were in different places compared to screenshots.

            MS, just go sit down somewhere and stop fiddling with shit

      • Toes♀@ani.social
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        7 months ago

        I’m not too familiar with that side of things but I do believe they do. My understanding is that some organizations are set up as nonprofits and they contribute to the development of Linux.

        Some European governments also use foss software for things like email and office.

        But it’s easier to throw darts at a big company than lots of small things that add up to something big.

    • cley_faye@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      6
      ·
      7 months ago

      It already exists. Most of the requirements that break with current W10 machines are artificial and can be removed at install time with rufus (memory requirement, secure boot, TPM2, microsoft account).

      Still not a solution; you should not have to fight against your OS design choices that much.

    • MrZweihander@lemmynsfw.com
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      7 months ago

      I wouldn’t be surprised to see the EU require M$ to remove the artificial requirements and let 10 users on older hardware update.

  • mctoasterson@reddthat.com
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    59
    ·
    7 months ago

    Yeah it’s nice to know I have to build a new machine next year whether I want to or not. I’ve been coasting on a desktop PC I built circa 2015 because the thing works still. Problem is it doesn’t meet the hardware reqs (TPM 2.0) to upgrade to Win 11.

    Whether I build a machine in 2025 or not I think I will be making the switch to daily driving Linux. I am sick of the amount of time the end user has to spend debloating Windows and blocking its telemetry.

    • Lemonparty@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      21
      ·
      7 months ago

      So September 2025ish is when I need to decide which Linux distro to go with.

      • Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        18
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        7 months ago

        Because theres no need to buy new hardware until then and the planned parts might get cheaper or a new deal is offered.

        For example my planned motherboard was on sale with a local seller because they opened a new location and offered a 20% discount on Asus parts.

    • intoverflow@feddit.de
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      7
      ·
      7 months ago

      You can bypass the TPM 2.0 requirements by pulling in your Windows 11 ISO into Rufus and then selecting to remove the TPM requirement in the prompt.
      Drawback is when updating to new major releases of win11 (so I’ve heard) that you have to edit the registry.

      Just going Linux is way cleaner.

    • qaz@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      7 months ago

      I suggest slowly switching to cross platform apps so you don’t find out an app you’re using daily won’t work after moving to Linux.

    • barsquid@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      7 months ago

      Are there TPM modules that one can drop in to motherboards to add that? I have TPM module headers, I keep wondering if I can get one to use with LUKS.

      I think switching to Linux is the right choice regardless though.

    • Chev@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      7 months ago

      Their hardware requirents don’t make sense at all. I’ve built my new PC last summer with the best AMD tech available and I don’t meet the requirements for some reason.

  • Blackmist@feddit.uk
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    51
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    7 months ago

    If they really wanted people to upgrade to Windows 11, they’d take out the TPM and SecureBoot requirements.

    Truly the Kinect of Windows 11.

    • explodicle@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      10
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      7 months ago

      I still miss the Kinect. Shouting at people in Skyrim was awesome. They should have doubled down and added finger recognition for the Series K.

  • NutWrench@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    48
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    7 months ago

    It looks like Windows 10 is going to be my last Windows operating system. Thanks to Microsoft.

    • Blackmist@feddit.uk
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      24
      ·
      7 months ago

      I’d temper those expectations tbh. I’ve still got customers on Windows XP.

      Out of support does not mean “can’t be used”.

      • asudox@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        7
        ·
        edit-2
        7 months ago

        I agree. But using Windows XP these days is a huge security risk. W10 not getting security updates at least for the next 2 years is probably something that can be overlooked, but it will at some point be vulnerable to automatic attacks like XP. I’m sure there are some websites on the web that try to automatically exploit some major exploits that have been lrft unfixed in Windows XP. I’d advise them to switch to Linux Mint or something instead of using that old vulnerable system.

        • Blackmist@feddit.uk
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          7 months ago
          1. The browser is the failure point and they get updated for a long time after the OS falls out of support. Chrome was supported for 8 years after Windows 7 stopped being officially supported.

          2. All their Windows software they need to run their business isn’t going to run reliably enough on any version of Linux. They don’t want to touch anything that’s working or pay for anything. You have to understand the world is not filled with OS enthusiasts. It’s just a platform to run other things. If it’s working and it’s making you money, you do not touch it, unless you really want to find out what OS they use at the Job Centre.

    • RedWeasel@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      10
      ·
      7 months ago

      I have an elderly friend that I will probably need to migrate as 1 of their 2 computers doesn’t support win11. I am fully able to migrate them, but I really want it themed(Plasma6 probably ) to look as much like 10 as they a dealing with cognitive decline and I don’t want to force them to relearn using their computer.

      I need to start investigating, but I got over a year to do so. The other part is making sure the 2 pieces of proprietary software they use runs in wine. I expect both will, but need to check.

      This is obviously something that developers probably don’t think about as much as an accessibility issue in general.

      • MalachaiConstant@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        7 months ago

        I was thinking about this the other day. I support some very, very technologically limited users and I wondered if anyone out there is working on a distro/DE that looks and feels just enough like windows to get them by

        I would never have considered this before they announced Recall. Now it feels like I’m waiting to see just how hard they push it

        • Moorshou@lemmy.zip
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          7 months ago

          I’m typing this from Linux mint, I play mainly video games and websurf but I choose this distro for the community support! Since I don’t know everything about linux I go here on lemmy, or reach out to the members via hexchat

  • BroBot9000@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    48
    arrow-down
    4
    ·
    7 months ago

    I installed Linux Mint for the first time the other day and I’m thoroughly enjoying myself.

    Thanks M$ for getting me to enjoy my pc again, as a Linux.

  • sunbunman@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    44
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    7 months ago

    As a long time Windows user, my SSD just shat itself last week. MS has been pissing me off with the constant “upgrade to Windows 11” messages that I’ve finally taken steps to change over to Linux. My experience has been as follows:

    • Ubuntu has been hot garbage, half the things I’ve tried don’t seem to work, and Gnome is hot garbage for a newcomer (this might just be an Ubuntu issue)
    • My current distro, Debian with Cinnamon, is pretty good. I don’t want the cutting edge of OS, I just want something that works and won’t bug me for major updates every other month.
    • There is a learning curve. No matter what anyone tells you, you will need to at least be able to google and copy and paste some terminal commands in Linux. Anything more is a bonus.
    • Linux can have a really pretty GUI after popping in a few changes to the default setup.
    • Gaming has actually been pretty smooth. 0 issues Lutrix running games from GoG and Steam is not bad even those without Linux support 👍🏾
    • barsquid@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      20
      ·
      7 months ago

      Brand new Linux user and you already hate Ubuntu, welcome, you are fitting in perfectly already. Half the things didn’t work probably because of their dumb Snap garbage.

    • ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      19
      ·
      7 months ago

      For anyone else reading this and thinking about trying linux for the first time, be sure to use Linux Mint. It will give you the smoothest and easiest experience, and you pretty much never need the terminal. It even comes with a really nice software store (but everything is free).

      • NoTimeLeft@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        7 months ago

        Second this. Wanted Linux as Windows user. Currently on Linux Mint, got it a few months now. Really easy to use, and allows you to experiment with the console if you’d like to, but almost never necessary. So far, I haven’t encountered any problems with it (apart from a total lock-out while trying some weird shit in the console with printer drivers, but printers are evil anyway, so I’ll give it a pass for now lmao)

  • VerticaGG@lemmy.blahaj.zone
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    40
    ·
    7 months ago

    Its the Data harvesting that’s irking me. Not that data harvesting is new; but that i have a dreadful sense of M$’ “AI” scheming just crosses a rubicon of data harvesting.

    I’m backing away slowly. Dont care what games or executables i wont be able to run. Get ready for the accusations that im the “radical arch-loving myopic lemmy elite”: it’s finally time to run *nix as host.

  • slimarev92@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    29
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    edit-2
    7 months ago

    Ten years of support is not that bad actually. Having said that, Linux is better in almost every way.

    • raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      21
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      7 months ago

      Ten years of support is not that bad actually. Having said that, Linux is better in almost every way.

      “Linux is better in every way except for those use cases specifically tailored by Microsoft & associates to not play ball with Linux”.

      ftfy. Fuck corporations.

    • JustARegularNerd@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      7 months ago

      I think while this is true, it’s the time you have to switch over is much smaller.

      Windows XP kept being supported until 2014, and up to that point you had Windows Vista (2007), Windows 7 (2009) and Windows 8 (2012). That’s 7 years users had to move over.

      Even if you consider something like Windows 7 with a shorter support cycle ending in 2020, you had Windows 8 (2012) and Windows 10 (2015), giving you 8 years to cave in and upgrade.

      Windows 11 came out in 2022, and you have 3 years not to just upgrade the OS, but in a lot of cases your hardware too. I think this is why everyone is feeling the squeeze moreso than previously.